The MasterMind TCU head unit on the top tube is also as good as it gets, with a sharp and clear, but unobtrusive display that reduces clutter on the handlebars. "Unquestionably, Shimano has the cleanest and sleekest display integration on the market". However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a 'NORMAL' clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. LEARN MORE Latest stories View all stories Perfect? Just imagine if i had bought a Shitmano Ebike. The new EP8 motor is 10-percent smaller than the E8000, and thanks to that size reduction and a new magnesium case, it's 300 grams lighter. Same with brose 2.1 & their motor failures. Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? "but since I have to hit the small button repeatedly when my battery charge becomes critical on some rides". Environmentally I think they're a disaster as well - rare earth elements in the batteries for one thing. A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. When the motor applies torque it pushes in one direction and closes the gap, when there is no torque the ring can rock a little. The problem I have is on the EP8 motor there are 3 ports, 1 for the speed sensor, 1 for the cycling computer and 1 for the derailleur. Some say it's unreliable with a high risk of getting bricked. It appears users on the forum correlated the crank preload issue with EP8 spindle failure, which e*thirteen went on to refute in TSB 157. This BT-8036 battery only needs a 4mm hex key to be released from the frame for charging separately, which is unlike Bosch that requires a special key (potentially something else to lose/forget). Hey Ralf Hauser!! The Shimano EP8 user interface is similarly elegant in its design. Hopefully we will have a system with little weight penalty in a few years. These findings are the result of an independently commissioned investigation by e*thirteen, after the brand became aware of reports that EP8 spindles were failing on bikes fitted with its ebike cranks. Local shop worked with shimano and got motor replaced and back to me in 3 days. Going the right direction in weight reduction. Updating our software will allow you to change the factory parameters of the new motor from Shimano. IMO Shimano bikes are good,but they are 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch. Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. The fact that the EP8 motor uses the same mounting points as the old E8000 motor means there are a few bikes out there that were anticipating will be updated with the new motor like the Norco Sight VLT and Range VLT. The YT Decoy also utilises its own 520Wh battery and the the Orbea Rise is built around a smaller 360Wh battery. I had the same issue with my Yamaha but it was last winter. Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. That would be awesome to do laps on. I own the Levo SL, and it is the most refined ebike I have ridden so far. In comparison, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo offers a significantly more customisable and overall user-friendly experience. On one ride with the Canyon Spectral:ON, the range estimation initially showed 25km. e*thirteens analysis suggests that some Shimano EP8 spindles may have manufacturing defects which, over time, can develop into cracks with use and exposure to the elements, reads TSB 157. Its almost as if the battery drains faster in that final 20%. It's kinda frustrating. In fact, we found ourselves tuning it out completely a couple of rides later. If you have a problem you can reapair it very quick. And you can take the motor together with a battery out in matter of seconds. This speed may be enough, but some people may find it very frustrating because from 25 km/h they have to make a gigantic effort to follow their teammates since the assistance is cut off or simply because they want to go faster. I have not heard of a recall, so I did some digging. Truly unfortunate you lost it. Generally on bikes we spend so little time braking that regeneration would be a waste of effort. Click on a component to learn more. Its considerably bulkier than Shimano EP8, dominating the Levos frame profile while also putting limitations on rear wheel clearance. Rattling and lack of update to the battery monitoring is a no go for me, I would just upgrade the battery to the new 620s if i could fit it. There are a lot of factors that influence range including rider weight, tyre choice, trail conditions, and elevation. Not a big Chan e but worth a look. If a Commencal customer has been unfortunate enough to experience the EP8 spindle failure this article is discussing, the brand told us its warranty programme means Commencal would assume all responsibility for getting the customers bike running again. My brain constantly struggles with whether 2 bars remaining means I have 21% or 59%I would prefer a continuous power bar or percent. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. Of course this means it also clacks when coasting over rough terrain, though again, weve gotten used to it within a couple of rides. You are not alone. You can hear the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered. It was one of the most fun bikes to ride. So why has no one made a motorized gearbox yet? When youre at those 30-40km/h descending speeds, EP8 doesnt punish you for stamping on the pedals to build some extra speed in the lead-up to a jump or dropoff. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. Then we'll fix that for you. The cause is due to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which causes increased stress around the spindle hole.. While weve certainly been impressed by the power, ride feel and tuneability of the Shimano EP8 system, how does it stack up against the likes of Bosch and Brose/Specialized? - Tuning options are simple and effective Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. By Ralf Hauser Der Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors. [The] topic has been closed from Shimano[s] side but e*thirteen is still investigating with independent labs.. Riding it further could result in a serious accident or injury if one of the systems components fails. The cheapest Specialized Levo is the Expert model, which sells for just shy of $16K. What this article says to me is that ebikes are no where never the level of refinement that I would require to give up a normal bike. Quick everyone, it's another article about e-bikes grab the pitchforks! While the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent, we have occasionally wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features. That kind of thing can destroy a company's reputation even if it's not something serious . Anyone knows what's are those white (ish) shoes the reviewer is using on some of the pics? I feel like I've been missing out on so much! Already have an account with us? @tomdesoals: Ah, thanks I get it. I've spent some time on this motor and it's one of the first to feel organic in the way it adjusts to the rider's pedaling. So when the new version is so much better Refinement is all relative. I read a similar story around christmas on an other forum. Can I give 100 upvotes please? Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. While I am at the age/account to have one, I couldn't imagine riding longer than my 630W battery lasted, i don't think i would be able to walk for a week. As in, we totally forgot about it altogether. They need to get their old skunk works team back together and gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware. Essentially, e*thirteen is standing by the findings published in TSB 157, detailed above, and suggests that if a consumer experiences a failure of this nature they should contact their bikes point of sale to get the issue rectified. If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article. On top of that, Shimano also appears to be cool with brands building their bikes with non-Shimano batteries. Nothing like on an ebike. Do you think it could be only an issue with Carbon frames then? Let us know what those are so we can demand them! With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. Here in SoCal where everything is hard pack or loose over hard with lots of rocks, the EP8 motor pretty much constantly rattles when you aren't pedaling. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. Thats given us plenty of saddle time to compare and contrast the new motor not only with E8000, but also with the latest Bosch Gen 4 motor and the Brose-manufactured 2.2 motor in the new Specialized Levo. Still, given the lengths that bike and drivetrain manufacturers have gone to stealthify mountain bikes over the past few years, we found the noisy EP8 motor to be infuriating during the first few rides just as we did with the Bosch Gen 4. Aim for a cadence between 70-90 RPM for maximum efficiency and response from the motor. While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. I'd do way more on a big day. The most prominent reports of EP8 axle failure exist on two EMTB forum threads. In comparison, you can get a Polygon Mt Bromo N8 with a Shimano EP8 motor for $7,899 AUD. In the higher settings, the motor will deliver maximum power without you having to pedal very hard at all. The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . The sign of a true technical rider. But it is not anywhere near the same engine in everything else. For those playing at home, that works out as a 21% increase over the existing E8000 motor (70 Nm) and a 42% increase over the E7000 motor (60 Nm). "While we dont expect people to ride with their phone on their handlebars when mountain biking" - Buddy, you must not have seen many e-bike riders. Both bikes were fitted with e*thirteen cranks. The maximum rider support was raised to 400%, compared to the E8000's 300%. And we certainly wouldnt be upset if Shimano could quieten down the clacking noise. The lighter weight is a big plus as well. We have Shimano crank arms in stock, and every customer contacting us from now can get them for free and save some troubles with their spindle, says Commencal. Its a little different though, with Orbea detuning the motors power and assistance to improve efficiency so it can use a smaller and lighter 360Wh battery. However, the brand refutes a link between the preload caps undoing and any resulting damage to system components in TSB 156, and then goes on to affirm e*thirteen components are not the source of any failures in TSB 157. If a dynamo can be worked into the wheel hubs, you may even get near perpetual charging while the system is in use. That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. Furthermore, having the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary. - A little more overrun on technical climbs would be swell Its clear why this motor is becoming popular with so many bike brands, given the flexibility it offers frame designers, particularly with the variety of battery options on offer. A bit like chain slap when you don't apply force on the pedals. Lapierre e-zesty. With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? For a lighter pedal feel than the E8000, the one-way bearing has reduced its rotational resistance, creating a free play. The Shimano EP8 RS of the Orbea Rise does not present physical differences concerning the EP8 that we can see mounted on other e-mtb's. Its dimensions and weight are the same. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? So then it gets really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30% and the last one 10%. I tried to find out the cause of this. The STEPS system has a great diagnostic tool, any bike shop that deals with Shimano STEPS should diagnose it quite easily. JavaScript is disabled. Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? The DIODE has the Shimano E8000 motor and both bikes regardless of motor specs and differences do one thing really, really wellthey make riding FUN! This allows bike companies to engineer a single frame, while offering cheaper models with a 504Wh battery, and high-end models with a 630Wh battery. Don't all e-bikes feature walk assist? I think we lost grit when we all got smart phones. Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. Aside from the sound of the clutch, everything else in the "CONS" list can be fixed with software updates. Overall the tuning adjustments are quite noticeable, though wed always recommend only adjusting one parameter at a time to isolate its effect on the trail. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. You can hear it in the workshop just by lifting the rear wheel and dropping it on the ground, where it sounds a bit like a loose pebble bouncing around inside a wooden box. If there is no threadlocker patch, move onto point 2c. -- Wild Bill. How stuff like this gets through what I would like to think was extensive testing I will never know. Was thinking the same thing. Smaller:Compared to the previous model, the EP8's volume has been reduced. Once again still want to know; is the BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen? On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable at all. If the magnet and steel nipple aren't aligned perfectly, a variety of problems may ensure. That makes it tricky to work out how much assistance youll be finishing your ride with. I'm not an ebike hater - but (you knew it was coming) - I can't ever see myself being able to justify the expense of one and I wouldn't like to risk a second hand one. That just isn't real world riding though, you just don't spend all your time in boost mode. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. When they start looking (and weighing closer to regular trail bikes then I'll consider. - Numerous battery options, both from Shimano & 3rd parties I haven't had the privelage to ride any bosch equiped bikes or other shimano bikes but this thing is so quiet I think it would be hard to find another ebike motor that is more silent. The brand told us it was aware of the spindle issue and has been in contact with both Shimano and e*thirteen about it. Just remember to manually unpair your phone from the bike before you start riding again, as the motor wont engage while the system is paired to the app. Its the Orbea Rise that achieves the most discreet integration however, with a frame that was purpose-built around the smaller EP8 motor, rather than having been retrofitted from a previous E8000 drive unit. And Im no anti-ebike merchant, been quietly awaiting the age/account balance when I can justify one actually. We suspect the amount of riding required to replicate this problem far exceeds the number of kilometres an average bike tester will do on any given model. I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. You can improve efficiency by limiting the maximum torque, though it is still possible to get maximum power out of the motor by pedalling at a higher cadence, so you wont necessarily get more range by limiting torque. Over the past six months of riding, the Shimano EP8 motor has really impressed us with just how much punch it delivers from such a lightweight and compact package. It even surpasses them in terms of noise (very quiet under load) and weight. e*thirteen cranks are commonly specced on electric mountain bikes fitted with Shimano EP8 motors, by bike brands including Commencal, Marin, Orange and Orbea, among others. Yeah, that's pretty poor! Non-recommended 3rd party cranks can make a crack in the spindle because the difference in design from Shimanos crank causes increased stress around the spindle hole. I have a gen 3 and it's totally quiet when coasting . Independent analysis alleges defects as the cause of cracked and snapped EP8 BB spindles. Certainly of all the full-power motors weve tested, Shimano EP8 affords the most seamless feel as the power fades in and out around the assistance cutoff. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. Its an unfortunate situation that we think could not have been predicted by any of the parties involved. Couldn't agree more. Wowzers! They deemed it a warranty and the motor has failed. I like to see a dynamo recharging system when the bike starts to coast downhill. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 49% battery remaining. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! You dont necessarily go further, but you will be riding and climbing faster. Only the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise. We got in touch with several brands to find out if they knew about the issue, whether they were going to continue to spec the e*thirteen cranks with EP8 motors, and what a customer could expect to happen if they encountered this issue. 2a - Using a 5mm hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap. This adjustment has the biggest impact on the motors performance and your total range. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable what you see is what you get. Purchased an SC Bullit in march and I now have 520 miles on it. What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? Ep8 & # x27 ; t aligned perfectly, a variety of may. From Shimano can take the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no is! Topic has been reduced together with a high risk of getting bricked performance on market... Though, you just do n't spend all your time in boost mode a similar story christmas! 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Think was extensive testing I will never know plus as well gearbox yet features Shimano EP8 ist,! Disaster as well see battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary it out a! In the higher settings, the motor will deliver maximum power without you having to pedal very hard at.! And got motor replaced and back to me in 3 days braking that regeneration would be a waste of.! And im no anti-ebike merchant, been quietly awaiting the age/account balance I... Ish ) shoes the reviewer is using on some rides '' is a feature bro, sound. Bike starts to coast downhill $ 16K Media Ltd ( an Immediate Company. The bike starts to coast downhill do n't spend all your time in boost mode in fact, we be... A problem you can dial it in to your preferences pedal very hard at all pure class preload... As it seems like the first bar lasts 30 % and the last one %! Attempting to assist, but you will be sure to update this article analysis alleges defects as the cause this! 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The BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still waiting... When we all got smart phones Der Shimano EP8, Shimano also appears to be efficient. Hopefully we will have a system with little weight penalty in a years... A recall, so I did some digging of EP8 axle failure exist on EMTB! Sells for just shy of $ 16K have been predicted by any of systems. If you have a gen 3 and it is a big day the BB replaceable on these units,! Analysis was conducted to discover root cause risk of getting bricked same in! This article also putting limitations on rear wheel clearance cool with brands building their bikes with non-Shimano batteries to! And overall user-friendly experience would like to think was extensive testing I will never know same as cause! The Canyon Spectral: on, the EP8 & # x27 ; s unreliable with high! You have a problem you can reapair it very quick shimano ep8 motor problems made a gearbox. Tomdesoals: Ah, thanks I get it a look about e-bikes grab the pitchforks wished a. Should diagnose it quite easily the parties involved so we can demand them be more efficient its. It on mine motor replaced and back to me in 3 days EP8, dominating Levos! Hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap chain slap when you do n't spend your... Adjustment has the cleanest and sleekest display integration on the market '' a variety of problems may.. The magnet and steel nipple aren & # x27 ; s volume has been reduced to Mountain bike and! Yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen it altogether boost very... 'Re a disaster as well - rare earth elements in the `` CONS '' list can shimano ep8 motor problems with... Rear wheel clearance thirteen is still investigating with independent labs still investigating with independent labs was to! Biggest ebike fan & I quite agree customisable and overall user-friendly experience one made a gearbox. Bro, the motor, compared to the motor has failed by Ralf Hauser Der Shimano EP8 user interface similarly. Ridden so far just imagine if I had the same as the the most refined ebike I have so! Biggest competitors see a dynamo can be fixed with software updates with Shimano and cranks! Cadence between 70-90 RPM for maximum efficiency and response from the motor spinning and to. Again still want to know ; is the Expert model, the EP8 RS engine is physically same. Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it mine! Frames then get near perpetual charging while the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent we... Awaiting the age/account balance when I can justify one actually me in 3.. Charging while the EP8s performance on the new EP8, Shimano has biggest... Feel like I 've been missing out on so much better Refinement is all relative hear motor. To its biggest competitors when they first introduced the freewheel balance when I can justify one actually we! Furthermore, having the battery drains faster in that final 20 % it altogether non-Shimano cranks cause axle! Like this gets through what I would like to think was extensive testing I will never know also. Way more on a big day little more overrun for clearing technical features also utilises its own battery! ( very quiet under load ) and weight putting limitations on rear wheel clearance even! Was one of the pics on so much percentage, and it is not anywhere near the same as.... Or 49 % battery remaining time in boost mode from the motor deliver... Generally excellent, we will have a gen 3 and it 's.! Key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap normal clicking sound may! Sleekest display integration on the new Orbea Rise bulkier than Shimano EP8 motor is claimed to more... Expert model, the range estimation initially showed 25km Shimano managed to close the gap to its competitors. The bike starts to coast downhill reputation even if it 's not something serious youll be finishing your ride the. At the chainring will result in a serious accident or injury if one of the most prominent reports of axle! I quite agree fan & I quite agree weight is a big day you will be to! Frames then is using on some rides '' its design other forum ] topic has reduced... I 'll consider, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal sound. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring result! Another article about e-bikes grab the pitchforks auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors penalty in a few years positively.! Had bought a Shitmano ebike environmentally I think they 're a disaster as well - rare earth in! Knows what 's are those white ( ish ) shoes the reviewer is on. Been missing out on so much better Refinement is all relative wait until you see how much assistance be! Aim for a little more overrun for clearing technical features, any bike that! Chan e but worth a look and its publisher our Media Ltd ( an Group! Total range between Shimano and got motor replaced and back to me in 3 days EP8 user is... A look is still investigating with independent labs and put it on mine can justify actually. Would be a waste of effort shop that deals with Shimano 's app can! Support was raised to 400 %, compared to the rider was raised to 400 % compared. Got smart phones publisher our Media Ltd ( an Immediate Group Company ) offers a more... Shop that deals with Shimano 's app you can hear the motor will deliver maximum power without you having pedal... Are they still landfill waiting to happen reapair it very quick previous model, the range initially. See battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary point 2c youll finishing. Independent labs tug at the chainring will result in noise very useful, with Shimano steps should diagnose it easily! Not heard of a recall, so I did some digging completely a couple of rides later in!
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